elvendoll

Spelling, grammar and the english language itself are undergoing massive changes do to the influences of hip hop, multiculturalism and the net. The internet is barely 10 years old, and the web is 8 years old. Who says that 10 years from now, the 'wrong' ways of spelling and speaking won't become absorbed into what we now refer to as 'proper'?

What are her intrests? You might have some luck getting her to read if you pass a book to her that holds her attention. Try to be understanding. Saying "the way you type makes my hair stand on end" and holding your nose up at her won't help.

On another note, should I just assume you don't want to see me or hang out at all when you're in NJ? Should I stop asking altogether? If you have no intrest in talking to me, let me know.. but don't tell me you do, then 'forget' to contact me when you're here, or tell me you're too busy and too tired every time. It's insulting.

From:

Who says that 10 years from now, the 'wrong' ways of spelling and speaking won't become absorbed into what we now refer to as 'proper'?

I'm not saying she should stop typing that way to her friends, i see how that is important for her. I don't see how knowing more, and knowing what is proper now can be anything other then beneficial.

What are her intrests? You might have some luck getting her to read if you pass a book to her that holds her attention. Try to be understanding. Saying "the way you type makes my hair stand on end" and holding your nose up at her won't help.

i know, and i know i have a really hard time with that. unfortunately, i don't know of any interests other then chatting to her friends, talking about boys and shopping.

On another note, should I just assume you don't want to see me or hang out at all when you're in NJ? Should I stop asking altogether? If you have no intrest in talking to me, let me know.. but don't tell me you do, then 'forget' to contact me when you're here, or tell me you're too busy and too tired every time. It's insulting.

i'm sorry.
i don't feel up to going out each time i'm in NJ - it takes me 4 hours to get there and being around my family wears me out. the motivation to drive another hour there and then back into the city dwindles with each hour past 9pm, especially if there isn't something specific that i want to see/do while there -

iggee25 can say how many times we've played phonetag about meeting up, just for it to get late enough that i don't feel like doing the drive anymore.
there's been times i've posted to LJ that i'm in NJ / looking to do something, and didn't hear from you - i don't assume thats because you never want to see me, etc.

From:

thank you.

my two biggest problems are that she wears out the little patience i have fairly quickly, and that i can't be there, physically, to make that much of a difference. i'm trying to think of littler things i could do, though...

From:

scuba.livejournal.com

You could always play EXCEPTIONALLY naive as to what she means whenever she talks to you, and forcing her into having a properly written conversation.

(Of course, she may never want to speak to you again)

From:

I don't see how knowing more, and knowing what is proper now can be anything other then beneficial.

Keep in mind that the majority of people don't think like that. They want to do just enough to get by and be comfortable. Especially someone just entering their teens, people don't want to do any more than absolutely necessary. This doesn't make them anything less, it makes them ordinary. The fact that you have the drive to know, understand and experience is what makes you extraordinary.

unfortunately, i don't know of any interests other then chatting to her friends, talking about boys and shopping.

Does she listen to music? What kind of music does she like?

there's been times i've posted to LJ that i'm in NJ / looking to do something, and didn't hear from you - i don't assume thats because you never want to see me, etc.

Well, every time out of of 3 or 4 times we've been in each other's area and I've tried to get in touch with you to hang out, especially after you've already posted asking to hang out, you've refused for one reason or another, even though a couple times you were only in the next town over or I told you that I'd drive out to see you. On top of that, you've never, ever contacted me specifically when you were coming down here. I mean, you've never directly insulted me or gave me the impression that you disliked me... but the fact that your family is so draining on you and you seem to have a not-too-nice time when you're there, it kind of puts me off that you'd rather stay there than spend an hour or so chatting with me, especially since I consider you a friend.

Shrug.. maybe I'm just too sensitive.

From:

The internet is barely 10 years old

I've been using the Internet personally for over 10 years (something like 12) and in some form or another it (and the network of networks that preceded what is normally thought of as the modern Internet) has been around for over 25 years. There is a lot more to the net than http.

The research project that started the path toward the Internet had it's roots at IPTO (the Information Processing Techniques Office, part of ARPA and at that time based in the Pentagon) in around 1966.

In 1969 the first major physical work on the ARPANET was contracted to BBN - building the IMPs.

I've looked at maps of the net from various times, the one that sticks in my mind was from 1973 (the year I was born).

TCP/IP, the use of which which some define as the start of the current incarnation of the Internet, was developed in the 1970s and became more widely available in the 1980s.

I'm not really sure where you got less than 10 years from, but if you're interested in the details then the book to read is Where Wizards Stay Up Late, by Katie Hafner and Matthew Lyon (ISBN 0-684-81201-0, published by Simon and Schuster).

From:

Dude. I've been using BBS since 1990. The -public- internet is about 10 years old. I was using gopher over WWIV and Fidonet BBS 12 years ago. I was sending emails that took 3 days to make the hops across the country. What's with trying to school me over a detail? What do you have to prove?

From:

Sorry, that was a bit smug. What I meant was the -public- internet is 10 years old... and even when it went public, there was no way to directly access it. Sure, there was TCP/IP, but the end users hardly ever had to deal with that.

ATDT 5550234
CONNECT 1200

woot! my new 1200 baud modem works! r0xx0r! :)

Then, you have to think about popularity. For a long time, I hardly told anyone outside of the world I lived in online what I was doing. Do you know how many times I had to explain to someone how it was possible that my computer calls up other computers over the phone and talks to them? They saw it on Wargames, but didn't know it was real.. they thought it was some kind of science fiction.

So yes, the 'internet' as we know it, and online culture as we know it, is less than 10 years old. w00t, bi0ch! 3y3 0wn j00! h4h4h4!

From:

The -public- internet is about 10 years old

The public Internet is 14 years old, since that's when the first commercial ISP started selling dialup access to it.

What's with trying to school me over a detail?

Lots of people have some strange, and incorrect, ideas about the Internet even when they're sure they are right (like the urban myth that the Internet was designed to survive a nuclear war, it was designed to survive telco screwups).

From:

Do you know how many times I had to explain

I still have to explain to people what I do.

online culture as we know it

Online culture as I know it has been around for longer.

What most people think of as online culture (and the complete lack of being able to spell and type, j00 c4n b3 0wn3d t00) is less than 10 years old. The laziness of most of it drives me crazy. SMS shortforms in the UK are even worse but at least then you have the excuse of trying to type on a phone keypad.

From:

This doesn't make them anything less, it makes them ordinary.

in a lot of ways, i see 'ordinary' as less, and i don't like the idea of watching someone i care about be 'less' without attempting to help them make their way to a better path.

Does she listen to music? What kind of music does she like?

just top 40 stuff...

as for hanging out...
i do enjoy time with my family, i wouldn't keep going if i didn't.
they're very intense, though, and wear me out fairly quickly - it makes me less likely to want to go somewhere, especially when its past an hour that is ideal for me.
i can think of three times we almost hung out, and each time, the hanging out would have occurred hours after the initial impulse. when there is something specific going on, and a set plan that i can look forward to, i'm usually pretty good about not flaking out.
when the plan is just 'chilling', it has to fall into a moment when the effort to get there and back seems like a good idea - driving for an hour to go out at 11pm, when i have to be up at a reasonable hour and drive 4 hours to get home the next day will rarely sound like something i'm up for. the time you were in MA, i was doing chores, which really needed to get done, and had set plans for the evening already.
for situations like that, i tend to be a 'my way or the highway' person, if a situation isn't working out to how i'd like it, my focus just goes elsewhere, and i expect the same from other people - if you don't like things as they are, you can approach making plans differently or drop the expectation - this discussion feels like a guilt trip.

From:

Online culture as I know it has been around for longer.

You still go on usenet, play tradewars and mud? What a geek. :-P

SMS shortforms in the UK are even worse but at least then you have the excuse of trying to type on a phone keypad.

We have it here now too, it's called PCS or mobile messaging.. and yeah, typing on a phone keypad is a pain in the ass.

From:

You still go on usenet, play tradewars and mud?

I still use Usenet (although these days mostly just for technical and job related information), never played tradewars nor MUDed. I've been using the same talk program and it's children since 1991, though, to keep in touch with friends across the country and in other countries.

What a geek. :-P

Well, yeah ...

From:

nymphochka.livejournal.com

maybe you could do a project with her... you're good at that... do something creative with her, like make a game...

From: (Anonymous)

Wow, how many different ideas and practical suggestions! some of them really should work! For more ideas, you can always look at the literature designed for parents who are "suffering" teenage girls. Most of the suggestions above have a reflection in that literature, and there will be many more examples. i just want to tell you a quick story. Two years ago, i was at my good friend's house, we were playing ping pong, or talking. He doesn't like to watch TV, and struck me when i met him for always being interested in something. He likes engineering and technology, so he would constantly be exploring various equipment items, literature, etc. He has a brother, who at that time was 11. The kid was really bright, very talented and creative. Yet, during that summer, the kid did one of the three things - he watched TV (cartoons, usually), played computer games (action) and video games (Mortal Kombat, and the like). It was very upsetting for my friend that his brother was not interested in ANYTHING else, despite our numerous attempts to engage him. Finally, at some point, after a frustrating attempt to interest him in the "next" project, i almost said to him "when you grow up, you will regret not doing it". And then i remembered how my mother or brother said that to me many times, when i was growing up, and how i didn't listen. And then i realized that i do regret it, periodically. It's a rite of passage - we all have the right to make our own mistakes, and since we only live once (this is up for a SEPARATE discussion), why should she live YOUR life? Granted, we all somewhat agree with you (otherwise, we wouldn't really be friends, right?), but she has her own life to live. And Nymphochka is right - if you can't "fix" her, at least try to connect with her. You can't really change who she is going to become, but you can build something, that might have a magical effect on her. good luck! P.S. The Russian language is amazing if you socialize with people in Russia. Try to get her on some Russia-based chat. The Russian we hear in the US is NOTHING compared to their language!

From:

we all have the right to make our own mistakes

thats why i'm trying to think of an effective way of luring her out of where she is - i know that my first impulses, which are to criticize and tell her she's making mistakes, won't do any good.
unfortunately, i have a hard time forging a connection with her before getting too frustrated, and i am fully aware that that is my problem/fault.

Try to get her on some Russia-based chat. The Russian we hear in the US is NOTHING compared to their language!

i'll have to look into that - i'm not sure she still remembers how to write in russian, and she'd need to be in a chatroom where people will be very tolerant of her lack of vocab/grammar/spelling.

can i guess that this is mark?

From: (Anonymous)

it's the "closet" part in the title that gave me out, right?

very impressive, though! how did you figure me out (that is, if not by the "closet" part).

From: